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Excess Crankcase Pressure-Help!

 
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GrimV8
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Excess Crankcase Pressure-Help! Reply with quote

Hello all Smile
Recently purchased a Vitesse after my 3500se was written off. Vitesse engine was in bits and in need of rebuild so I fitted my reliable se engine with the injection set up etc till the other engine gets some attention. Runs fine but now has so much crankcase pressure my valley gasket split in two on road test Shocked The engine previously had inflated the valley gasket but it had severe cylinder leakage figures so ho hum that made sense. Why would my good engine do this now? Confused Can't find any blockage in the breather system, so I must be missing something Sad Any ideas what I can check? Embarassed
Any help appreciated as I'm new here Wink

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ramon alban
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Location: Bedford UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Excess Crankcase Pressure-Help! Reply with quote

GrimV8 wrote:
Hello all

fitted my reliable se engine with the injection set up etc

Runs fine but now has so much crankcase pressure my valley gasket split in two on road test

Why would my good engine do this now? Can't find any blockage in the breather system, so I must be missing something


Check the plenum breather gallery is not blocked.

Read about it on page 7 of the pdf available here:

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Chris P
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Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 691
Location: Wiltshire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you checked the firetrap (cylinder screwed to the rocker
cover) is clear, the pipe is clear and where it enters the plenum
is clear of oil sludge? Also check the breather on the opposite
rocker (plastic cover with foam insert) cover is clear.

Though with the problem you describe, there must be more
wrong than a blocked breather system?
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GrimV8
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers all so far Wink
Am going back to look with fresh eyes tomorrow Smile
Feel I've checked everything but will kick myself when I find what I've missed Embarassed

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GrimV8
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris P wrote:
Have you checked the firetrap (cylinder screwed to the rocker
cover) is clear, the pipe is clear and where it enters the plenum
is clear of oil sludge? Also check the breather on the opposite
rocker (plastic cover with foam insert) cover is clear.

Though with the problem you describe, there must be more
wrong than a blocked breather system?


Mmm. This is what I don't get as when the same lump was on carbs I had no smoke, oil use or crankcase fumes Confused
The firetrap has a new gauze and can be blown through with ease. But can anyone tell me if I follow the pipe from this to the plenum chamber and remove it how much suction should there be? Should it be as strong as when I remove the pipes elsewhere on the vent system? It still runs/idles and only pulls a small vacuum. If I squirt carb cleaner in there the engine stops so must be clear I guess. What do you reckon? Sorry to be a pest Rolling Eyes

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ramon alban
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrimV8 wrote:


The firetrap has a new gauze and can be blown through with ease. But can anyone tell me if I follow the pipe from this to the plenum chamber and remove it how much suction should there be?

Should it be as strong as when I remove the pipes elsewhere on the vent system?

No - The vacuum here is not as strong as from the main body of the plenum chamber.

It still runs/idles and only pulls a small vacuum. If I squirt carb cleaner in there the engine stops so must be clear I guess.

That does indicate the plenum breather gallery is clear.



As CP says it sort of indicates there is something else going on.

first - the small hole in the breather inlet on the LH rocker cover is only about 40 thou but does need to be clear. The filter there is virtually cosmetic and of no particular consequence considering how small the hole is.

second - if you run the engine with the pipe disconnected from the top of the flame trap you should get some smokey emissions ( which are otherwise reburnt within the system) but if you have a great rush of emissions then this may indicate worn bores, rings or other piston/cylinder damage allowing considerable blow-by.

third - its very easy to be fooled that the flame trap and plenum galleries are clear whilst the hard rubber breather pipe is blocked.

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chris_derby
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 293
Location: Centre of the universe

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where can you get the small breather filter from(the little plastic thing with the foam insert!)? I tried Rimmers & they dont have any...

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JayDeeVDP
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Waterlooville, Hampshire

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: filter Reply with quote

chris_derby wrote:
Where can you get the small breather filter from(the little plastic thing with the foam insert!)? I tried Rimmers & they dont have any...


Chris, I believe most owners now use a tiny little K&N Filter? Please correct me if I'm wrong

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GrimV8
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear Crying or Very sad
Thanks Ramon and all for you're help and advice but I have run out of checks to do Embarassed
I used this engine as I said as it was in my daily driver and runs sweet as a nut, no smoke and no oil use Confused All I did was pop it into the Vitesse with the addition of the EFI system already there. This still ran sweet and went like a rocket compared to the ol' carb set up. Unfortunately it highlights some wear in the motor which was not apparent on the carb set up Rolling Eyes
Did a compression and cylinder leakage test on this today to find out that two cylinders are in desperate shape Evil or Very Mad 80% and 88% leakage via the rings or bore wear etc Mostly 170 or 160 ish PSI but one with 100lbs and one with 70lbs!! I cannot believe this engine runs like a swiss watch yet has such a terminal problem Shocked Obviously I never checked it as I know the engine runs so fine Mad
This was to be a temporary measure while I did the original engine properly, but I expected to make it to MOT!!
Looks like I'll put things on hold till the proper motor is sorted Wink
Thanks again to all and I'll be sticking around Smile

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ramon alban
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrimV8 wrote:


Did a compression and cylinder leakage test on this today to find out that two cylinders are in desperate shape 80% and 88% leakage via the rings or bore wear etc Mostly 170 or 160 ish PSI but one with 100lbs and one with 70lbs!!

I cannot believe this engine runs like a swiss watch yet has such a terminal problem


Grimbo, Old mate! Dont be so grim!

So, indeed, a lot of blow-by from an engine that was considered to be OK.

If its just rings, I believe I heard that they can be unstuck by soaking in fluid - whatever??

I have no idea what or how - I just heard about it.

If no-one here has any idea you might ask the question on the V8 Owners forum.

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GrimV8
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramon alban wrote:
GrimV8 wrote:


Did a compression and cylinder leakage test on this today to find out that two cylinders are in desperate shape 80% and 88% leakage via the rings or bore wear etc Mostly 170 or 160 ish PSI but one with 100lbs and one with 70lbs!!

I cannot believe this engine runs like a swiss watch yet has such a terminal problem


Grimbo, Old mate! Dont be so grim!

So, indeed, a lot of blow-by from an engine that was considered to be OK.

If its just rings, I believe I heard that they can be unstuck by soaking in fluid - whatever??

I have no idea what or how - I just heard about it.

If no-one here has any idea you might ask the question on the V8 Owners forum.

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LOL I'm very Grim at the moment Laughing Stuck in the daughters 1200 Corsa when I should be hooning in a V8 Surprised
It's not been sitting that long, wonder if that's an option. Will search about under that heading.
Cheers Smile

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ramon alban
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thought - the Rover Efi system was designed for a 9.75 : 1 compression ratio.

I'm no engine expert but what is the CR of your ex carb engine and would bigger bangs generated by more fuel and air from the Efi system cause a problem??

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the yorkshireman
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Joined: 07 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:18 pm    Post subject: Me too Reply with quote

I had the problem in my old vitesse many years ago whhen I noticed oil was collecting in the well of the front of the engine. The flame trap was smoking like a chimney and the Leyland mechanic who looked at it explained that it was too much crankcase compression which caused emissions to blow past the piston rings (sorry if I am not detailed enough). The engine was not breathing correctly.

This caused the cylinder head gasket to leak oil which collected in the well at the front of the engine. As Ramon says, you can miss that little black rubber breather pipe (the mechanic who replaced the gasket etc. didn't clean this out as I found out later!).

My old vitesse engine was a well used lump, however, with indeterminate mileage and later developed a nasty ticking tappety sound later on, despite throwing money at it!
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ramon alban
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Me too Reply with quote

the yorkshireman wrote:


The flame trap was smoking like a chimney and the Leyland mechanic who looked at it explained that it was too much crankcase compression which caused emissions to blow past the piston rings (sorry if I am not detailed enough). The engine was not breathing correctly.

This caused the cylinder head gasket to leak oil which collected in the well at the front of the engine. As Ramon says, you can miss that little black rubber breather pipe (the mechanic who replaced the gasket etc. didn't clean this out as I found out later!).



I'm afraid I dont buy the explanation from your Leyland man.

Surely the bangs occuring in the combustion chambers are getting into the crankcase via stuck rings, damaged pistons/bores, etc and passing considerable amounts of burned gas into the crankcase from where it must escape.

If the breathers are clear then the result is lots of emissions via the flame trap.

However if the breathers are blocked or partially blocked the excess pressure forces oil from the crankcase out of any orifice it can find, including the Dizzy shaft and other sealed places.

I believe that is how the oil will have appeared at the front of the engine as you described, because under usual conditions there is no significant oil in the combustion chambers and around the head gasket.

The key thing however is that the excess crankcase pressure must escape thro the breather system.

Now, if the cylinder blow-by is so gross as to make it impossible for all the gas the escape into the plenum chamber then the excess pressure can still cause oil leaks and distortion of the inlet manifold gasket.

Thats just my interprettation of the situations described.

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GrimV8
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramon alban wrote:
Another thought - the Rover Efi system was designed for a 9.75 : 1 compression ratio.

I'm no engine expert but what is the CR of your ex carb engine and would bigger bangs generated by more fuel and air from the Efi system cause a problem??


Quite right it is a lower compression engine but from memory I am sure I have heard of it done before but not with 2 knackered cylinders hate-wall
It must create bigger bangs & more blow by as none of this was apparent on the carbs Sad

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