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tommosredone
SD1 User


Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Mold North Wales

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello!
I've just come through the same problems, although I arived at a conclusion a bit quicker (had to, it's my only means of transport!).
First off fuel pump failed. easy to diagnose, easy to change.
About two weeks later developed a missfire over 4000rpm.
Car would not cut out, but would not rev either. Instantly suspected fuel pressure, so changed filter, no better.
Finally took tank out, rotten/blocked etc. (been standing for 6 years or so before I bought it in Feb)
New tank from Rimmers, back to running fine, if not better!!!
I think there is a well wher both the feed and return gather fuel from, driven steady, there was enough fuel to tick over, but start using the load pedal, the chamber depletes too fast for the blocked lines/weak pump to cope!!!
Hope this helps!
Tommo

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Punx0r
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Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tommo, I did read about your fuel problems when I came on here to post about my own. There doesn’t seem to be any blockages in my tank, but I’ve yet to have a good look inside with a torch. I didn’t see any corrosion inside on a quick inspection. This car had stood for 8-9 years before I got anywhere near it. It had been stood with fuel in the tank though.

I shall investigate further…
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tommosredone
SD1 User


Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Mold North Wales

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was the internal tank feed and return pipes that had got blocked in mine. There was an awful lot of surface rust/corrosion visible. I think it was just down to flow rates through the internal pipes. With about three gallons in the tank, the flow was not wild. When mine started missing badly, i could hear the fuel pump moaning. I could switch off, leave for about 2-3 mins, it would start and rev to about 3,000rpm, until the missing would start again. I had no means of measuring pressure, but disconnecting the tank to pump pipe off was enough for me to know it was the tank.
Try putting a few gallon in the tank, and undoing the tank to pump pipe, see what flow you get. Or if you are brave, try running the pump in a gallon can whilst still plumbed under the car.
Hope this helps.
PS Was your filter full of orange rusty stuff?
Mine was, even the two week old pump had signs of it...

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Punx0r
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Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi mate, my fuel pump is a bit noisy too when it's actually supplying pressure to the fuel rail. No signs of rust in the tank and I blew the fuel filter (replaced earlier this year) through with compressed air and no dirt came out.

The car runs ok idle so unfortunately I can't test it as you say with a jerry can. If I get nowhere then I've considered using either a seperate container and submersible pump in the engine bay, or forming a swirl pot type afair in the engine bay fed by the standard pump and a submersible pump in the pot.

I hope to have a better look at it this weekend, assuming it doesn't lash it down with rain all weekend Rolling Eyes
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tommosredone
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Mold North Wales

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello there!
I didn't try this, but as a thought, and easy to do. could you try and put the RETURN into a jerry can, and run the beast. You should see plenty coming out at idle, when (if) it starts starving, should the return stop altogether.
It seems to make sense, but someone may correct me.
Theory is if fuel starvation is the culrpit here, there can be no fuel to return to the tank...
Could be worth a go, just a little worried about the pressure involved...
Two chances I suppose!!!!
Good luck,
Tommo

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Punx0r
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Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting (to me at least Wink ) developments...

No the tank has had a few days to dry I was better able to asses the condition inside with a torch through the level sender hole. In short, it's rusty! Boo! Tipping the tank from end to end sounds a little like one of those rice shakers...

The feed and return pipes are about 2ft long inside the tank and go through several curves to reach a centre swirl pot type thingy almost underneath the level sender hole. There is an inacessable filter inside the pot, which has come apart on mine, and thus there is no filtration.

The feed pipe is clear, but the return pipe is now almost completely blocked. You can barely blow down it and a hose attached filled with petrol goes down rather slowly. 8 bar of compressed air failed to improve matters Sad

I removed the fuel pump from the car and tested its flow using a battery and two petrol cans. The pressure was fine but I wasn't convinced by the flow compared to a submersible pump I have. it turned out the pump inlet pipe was full of "stuff". Thankfully the pump has a mesh strainer installed in the inlet pipe so none of it had entered the pump. It was mostly brown rust powder and quite a lot of blue thread Shocked

With the pump back in good order I blew the feed pipe to the engine bay through with compressed air - no problems there.

Rain (blast it) stopped any further work on the tank. I plan to try rodding the return pipe with some stiff wire. If I can clear it then the tank can be emptied/rinsed and coated if need be, with an inline filter installed before the pump.

I may have to resort to cutting an access hole in the top of the tank, which will be repaired afterwards.

A new tank from Rimmers is £180 + delivery, and I prefer to repair and reuse things wherever possible Smile
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tommosredone
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Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Mold North Wales

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good work!
Sounds like you are getting there!!!!!!!!
I also thought £180 was steep, but it shhould last another 22 years, and it wasn't a job I fancied doing more than once!
At least we can still get new tanks...
I was tempted to try and clean mine out, but it was rotten inside, and, like you say, small internal pipes.
I didn't try anywhere else but Rimmers, there may be a cheaper place that someone knows of.
My theory with breakdowns is if the car starts to let you down, and you rely on it every day for work, the best method is to go for overkill, and put the job to bed for good. That's how I sold the new tank idea to the better looking half of the team, anyway!!
PS I actually had someone drive past and spit on me when the car had broken down with my fuel woes!!! Special people at work...
Good luck,
Tommo

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Punx0r
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Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spitting! Shocked I can't say I've had that, but if there was a rock to hand I'd give it a damn good go at lobbing it through their rear windscreen!

Besides suffering internal surface corrosion at some point it's completely solid and still has most of it's external paint, with the fittings in good condition.

I do think it's a good thing that relatively obscure parts like fuel tanks are still available new. This car is a weekend toy/project I undertook with my dad since we were both interested in owning an SD1. Neither of us rely on it so downtime isn't thankfully a massive factor. Unfortunately we've had the car for about 9-10 months now, poured in a fair amount of cash and haven't actually gotten to drive it properly yet!

Just need some decent weather and I think we'll get there soon Wink

Perhaps a kind moderator could move this thread to the new Fueling section?
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tommosredone
SD1 User


Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Mold North Wales

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello!
Martin Rimmer on the Yahoo SD1 site has an EFI fuel tank for sale (along with many other EFI bits). I think he mentioned putting them on ebay soon.
It may be a nice and cheap way of getting going!
A nice job for a rainy weekend, maybe!
Good luck!
Tommo

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Punx0r
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Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tommo, I will keep any extra eye out on ebay Smile

Anyway, she's finally a runner!

Dad and I spend some time at the weekend getting the tank into a servicable condition. The return pipe was unblocked by a combination of rodding with variour sizes of bailing wiring and braided steel cable, thinners, vacuum and compressed air - got there in the end.

We then put a handful of large gravel into the tank along with some petrol and shook it vigourously to dislodge loose corrosion from the internal surfaces. Several rinses with petrol removed a fair amount of rust.

We couldn't get a fuel filter to match the pipe size from the tank to the pump inlet so refitted the tank without a filter. The car ran nicely for 2-3 miles and then started playing up again...

Removing the pump showed a small amount of crud had collected in the inlet strainer, so this was cleaned. I fished the old engine bay fuel filter out of the bin (good job it rarely gets emptied) and used some additional piping to adapt it to the pump hose. After this the car ran spot on for 15 miles, plenty of WOT action, no problems Smile

I need to get some more pipe to relocate the filter to the transmission tunnel as its current location is causing a severe lack of ground clearance (the car won't be driven till this is resolved).

The plan is that once a few tankfulls of fuel has been run through the system any remaining crap will be caught in the filter and the filter can then be dispensed with.

Finally! Rolling Eyes Wink

Thanks for your help everyone!

Anthony
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ramon alban
SD1 Regular


Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 474
Location: Bedford UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Punx0r wrote:

The plan is that once a few tankfulls of fuel has been run through the system any remaining crap will be caught in the filter and the filter can then be dispensed with. Anthony


And spend £100 every few months for a new pump?

You need a filter prior to the pump permanently.

Ramon
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Punx0r
SD1 Regular


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I may keep the additional filter permanently, it depends what, if any the motivation to move it Smile

The pump has a fine mesh strainer that fits into the inlet of the pump body. This stops any particulates of significant size entering the pump, but its small area means it's easily over-whelmed.

The OE pump didn't appear to have this filter.

In addition, the fuel is inaudible from inside the car now Smile
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tommosredone
SD1 User


Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Mold North Wales

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like you've got it licked!
Maybe a good idea for a few tankfulls at least to put something inbetween tank and pump to protect the pump!
Happy running to you!
Tommo

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