| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
GrimV8 SD1 User
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.
|
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: Excess Crankcase Pressure-Help! |
|
|
Hello all
Recently purchased a Vitesse after my 3500se was written off. Vitesse engine was in bits and in need of rebuild so I fitted my reliable se engine with the injection set up etc till the other engine gets some attention. Runs fine but now has so much crankcase pressure my valley gasket split in two on road test  The engine previously had inflated the valley gasket but it had severe cylinder leakage figures so ho hum that made sense. Why would my good engine do this now?  Can't find any blockage in the breather system, so I must be missing something  Any ideas what I can check?
Any help appreciated as I'm new here  _________________ Have had V8s all my life and can't grow up- Is that wrong? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramon alban SD1 Regular

Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 478 Location: Bedford UK
|
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Excess Crankcase Pressure-Help! |
|
|
| GrimV8 wrote: | Hello all
fitted my reliable se engine with the injection set up etc
Runs fine but now has so much crankcase pressure my valley gasket split in two on road test
Why would my good engine do this now? Can't find any blockage in the breather system, so I must be missing something
|
Check the plenum breather gallery is not blocked.
Read about it on page 7 of the pdf available here:
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
_________________ Ramon
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Chris P SD1 Regular

Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 689 Location: Wiltshire
|
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Have you checked the firetrap (cylinder screwed to the rocker
cover) is clear, the pipe is clear and where it enters the plenum
is clear of oil sludge? Also check the breather on the opposite
rocker (plastic cover with foam insert) cover is clear.
Though with the problem you describe, there must be more
wrong than a blocked breather system? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
GrimV8 SD1 User
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
GrimV8 SD1 User
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.
|
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chris P wrote: | Have you checked the firetrap (cylinder screwed to the rocker
cover) is clear, the pipe is clear and where it enters the plenum
is clear of oil sludge? Also check the breather on the opposite
rocker (plastic cover with foam insert) cover is clear.
Though with the problem you describe, there must be more
wrong than a blocked breather system? |
Mmm. This is what I don't get as when the same lump was on carbs I had no smoke, oil use or crankcase fumes
The firetrap has a new gauze and can be blown through with ease. But can anyone tell me if I follow the pipe from this to the plenum chamber and remove it how much suction should there be? Should it be as strong as when I remove the pipes elsewhere on the vent system? It still runs/idles and only pulls a small vacuum. If I squirt carb cleaner in there the engine stops so must be clear I guess. What do you reckon? Sorry to be a pest  _________________ Have had V8s all my life and can't grow up- Is that wrong? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramon alban SD1 Regular

Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 478 Location: Bedford UK
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| GrimV8 wrote: |
The firetrap has a new gauze and can be blown through with ease. But can anyone tell me if I follow the pipe from this to the plenum chamber and remove it how much suction should there be?
Should it be as strong as when I remove the pipes elsewhere on the vent system?
No - The vacuum here is not as strong as from the main body of the plenum chamber.
It still runs/idles and only pulls a small vacuum. If I squirt carb cleaner in there the engine stops so must be clear I guess.
That does indicate the plenum breather gallery is clear.
|
As CP says it sort of indicates there is something else going on.
first - the small hole in the breather inlet on the LH rocker cover is only about 40 thou but does need to be clear. The filter there is virtually cosmetic and of no particular consequence considering how small the hole is.
second - if you run the engine with the pipe disconnected from the top of the flame trap you should get some smokey emissions ( which are otherwise reburnt within the system) but if you have a great rush of emissions then this may indicate worn bores, rings or other piston/cylinder damage allowing considerable blow-by.
third - its very easy to be fooled that the flame trap and plenum galleries are clear whilst the hard rubber breather pipe is blocked. _________________ Ramon
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
chris_derby SD1 Regular

Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 293 Location: Centre of the universe
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Where can you get the small breather filter from(the little plastic thing with the foam insert!)? I tried Rimmers & they dont have any... _________________ Auto Vitesse, gonna be a beast! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JayDeeVDP SD1 Regular

Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 360 Location: Waterlooville, Hampshire
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: filter |
|
|
| chris_derby wrote: | | Where can you get the small breather filter from(the little plastic thing with the foam insert!)? I tried Rimmers & they dont have any... |
Chris, I believe most owners now use a tiny little K&N Filter? Please correct me if I'm wrong _________________ Lifelong SD1 fan - 1983 Rover 3500 Vanden Plas |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
GrimV8 SD1 User
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.
|
Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh dear
Thanks Ramon and all for you're help and advice but I have run out of checks to do
I used this engine as I said as it was in my daily driver and runs sweet as a nut, no smoke and no oil use  All I did was pop it into the Vitesse with the addition of the EFI system already there. This still ran sweet and went like a rocket compared to the ol' carb set up. Unfortunately it highlights some wear in the motor which was not apparent on the carb set up
Did a compression and cylinder leakage test on this today to find out that two cylinders are in desperate shape  80% and 88% leakage via the rings or bore wear etc Mostly 170 or 160 ish PSI but one with 100lbs and one with 70lbs!! I cannot believe this engine runs like a swiss watch yet has such a terminal problem  Obviously I never checked it as I know the engine runs so fine
This was to be a temporary measure while I did the original engine properly, but I expected to make it to MOT!!
Looks like I'll put things on hold till the proper motor is sorted
Thanks again to all and I'll be sticking around  _________________ Have had V8s all my life and can't grow up- Is that wrong? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramon alban SD1 Regular

Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 478 Location: Bedford UK
|
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| GrimV8 wrote: |
Did a compression and cylinder leakage test on this today to find out that two cylinders are in desperate shape 80% and 88% leakage via the rings or bore wear etc Mostly 170 or 160 ish PSI but one with 100lbs and one with 70lbs!!
I cannot believe this engine runs like a swiss watch yet has such a terminal problem
|
Grimbo, Old mate! Dont be so grim!
So, indeed, a lot of blow-by from an engine that was considered to be OK.
If its just rings, I believe I heard that they can be unstuck by soaking in fluid - whatever??
I have no idea what or how - I just heard about it.
If no-one here has any idea you might ask the question on the V8 Owners forum.
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
_________________ Ramon
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
GrimV8 SD1 User
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.
|
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ramon alban wrote: | | GrimV8 wrote: |
Did a compression and cylinder leakage test on this today to find out that two cylinders are in desperate shape 80% and 88% leakage via the rings or bore wear etc Mostly 170 or 160 ish PSI but one with 100lbs and one with 70lbs!!
I cannot believe this engine runs like a swiss watch yet has such a terminal problem
|
Grimbo, Old mate! Dont be so grim!
So, indeed, a lot of blow-by from an engine that was considered to be OK.
If its just rings, I believe I heard that they can be unstuck by soaking in fluid - whatever??
I have no idea what or how - I just heard about it.
If no-one here has any idea you might ask the question on the V8 Owners forum.
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
|
LOL I'm very Grim at the moment Stuck in the daughters 1200 Corsa when I should be hooning in a V8
It's not been sitting that long, wonder if that's an option. Will search about under that heading.
Cheers  _________________ Have had V8s all my life and can't grow up- Is that wrong? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramon alban SD1 Regular

Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 478 Location: Bedford UK
|
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Another thought - the Rover Efi system was designed for a 9.75 : 1 compression ratio.
I'm no engine expert but what is the CR of your ex carb engine and would bigger bangs generated by more fuel and air from the Efi system cause a problem?? _________________ Ramon
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
the yorkshireman SD1 User
Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 28
|
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: Me too |
|
|
I had the problem in my old vitesse many years ago whhen I noticed oil was collecting in the well of the front of the engine. The flame trap was smoking like a chimney and the Leyland mechanic who looked at it explained that it was too much crankcase compression which caused emissions to blow past the piston rings (sorry if I am not detailed enough). The engine was not breathing correctly.
This caused the cylinder head gasket to leak oil which collected in the well at the front of the engine. As Ramon says, you can miss that little black rubber breather pipe (the mechanic who replaced the gasket etc. didn't clean this out as I found out later!).
My old vitesse engine was a well used lump, however, with indeterminate mileage and later developed a nasty ticking tappety sound later on, despite throwing money at it! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ramon alban SD1 Regular

Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 478 Location: Bedford UK
|
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Me too |
|
|
| the yorkshireman wrote: |
The flame trap was smoking like a chimney and the Leyland mechanic who looked at it explained that it was too much crankcase compression which caused emissions to blow past the piston rings (sorry if I am not detailed enough). The engine was not breathing correctly.
This caused the cylinder head gasket to leak oil which collected in the well at the front of the engine. As Ramon says, you can miss that little black rubber breather pipe (the mechanic who replaced the gasket etc. didn't clean this out as I found out later!).
|
I'm afraid I dont buy the explanation from your Leyland man.
Surely the bangs occuring in the combustion chambers are getting into the crankcase via stuck rings, damaged pistons/bores, etc and passing considerable amounts of burned gas into the crankcase from where it must escape.
If the breathers are clear then the result is lots of emissions via the flame trap.
However if the breathers are blocked or partially blocked the excess pressure forces oil from the crankcase out of any orifice it can find, including the Dizzy shaft and other sealed places.
I believe that is how the oil will have appeared at the front of the engine as you described, because under usual conditions there is no significant oil in the combustion chambers and around the head gasket.
The key thing however is that the excess crankcase pressure must escape thro the breather system.
Now, if the cylinder blow-by is so gross as to make it impossible for all the gas the escape into the plenum chamber then the excess pressure can still cause oil leaks and distortion of the inlet manifold gasket.
Thats just my interprettation of the situations described. _________________ Ramon
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
GrimV8 SD1 User
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 30 Location: Potters Bar, Hertfordshire.
|
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ramon alban wrote: | Another thought - the Rover Efi system was designed for a 9.75 : 1 compression ratio.
I'm no engine expert but what is the CR of your ex carb engine and would bigger bangs generated by more fuel and air from the Efi system cause a problem?? |
Quite right it is a lower compression engine but from memory I am sure I have heard of it done before but not with 2 knackered cylinders
It must create bigger bangs & more blow by as none of this was apparent on the carbs  _________________ Have had V8s all my life and can't grow up- Is that wrong? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|