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Stalling V8
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88v8
SD1 User


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Shepperton

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:57 am    Post subject: Chisel? Reply with quote

There you go again with your newfangulations.
Stick to flints, I say.

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kerosene
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 266
Location: IRL

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Lots of sarcasm.Ramon i know your joking,but i wouldn't even think about selling that car! Shocked . EFi is much better than carbs like lehto said,but carbs are easier to maintain to a basic mechanc.
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88v8
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Joined: 24 Nov 2007
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Location: Shepperton

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:24 pm    Post subject: Carbs Reply with quote

Basic mechanic - yup, that's me.
The more there is to go wrong the more it will.
Why do modern cars have such a short life - too complex.
No ABS for me, no airbags, no aircon, no power steering, no auto choke, and especially - no electronics. I admire you chaps who can keep an efi system in order, but I know my limitations!
Cool

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Punx0r
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Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 252

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That just isn't true, modern cars are much more reliable than those of yore, despite the owners usually taking little care of them.

Carbs require periodic adjustment and only give compromised fueling at best. Contact breaker points reliable? You don't have to remove cylinder heads for periodic de-coking anymore! Very Happy
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jrevillug
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Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More reliable yes, but the average life of a new car is down to about 7 years due to the 'black boxes' failing. Once the car oes out of production, the custom chips are not made anymore, so replacing the boxes becomes impossible.

Carbs and points are totally reliable if given the correct maintenance (IME- the imp'll go and lunch it's condensor now). Decoking is mainly due to petrol and oil formulations than the engine technology.

For a DIY mechanic, the Lucarse EFI injection system is a nightmare of analogue electronics- it is possibly one of the most advanced analogue systems ever. But Analogue reduces the reliability of the control electronics. My Dad had (seemingly) constant problems with the EFI on his SP Vitesse, and at one point was talking about going the big weber carb route.

James
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ramon alban
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 478
Location: Bedford UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrevillug wrote:

For a DIY mechanic, the Lucarse EFI injection system is a nightmare of analogue electronics- it is possibly one of the most advanced analogue systems ever. But Analogue reduces the reliability of the control electronics. My Dad had (seemingly) constant problems with the EFI on his SP Vitesse, and at one point was talking about going the big weber carb route.


James,

What you describe is the perception of many Rover Efi owners but one must bear in mind that analog systems preceded digital systems so the choice of analog vs digital was somewhat limited in 1980-2 when these were being designed by Bosch, adapted by Lucas and installed by Rover.

Furthermore the unreliability experienced is not primarily due to the electronic components even those within the ECU. Most ECU failures are anecdotally due to dry joints brought about by environment and vibration, not analog system failure.

In addition the majority of Rover Efi system failures are not due to component failure but to air leaks and electrical connections.

Rover seriously underestimated the underbonnet heat build up due to the latent heat of all that aluminium generating very high tempertures when the engine was switched off, exacerbated by the underbonnet blanket originally intended for sound absorbsion but also an extremely effective insulator.

Over time, the under-specified electrical wiring and connections simply failed to stand the heat but could not get out of the kitchen.

That same extreme heat environment is also resonsible for the detrioration of the mass of rubber tubing over the time period involved, now up to 26 years.

Finally, if a preventive maintenance schedule regarding all the system components, connections, pipes and airways, and in particular the plenum chamber and all its bits and pieces, galleries and throttle assy, is undertaken then the reliability can be significantly improved.

And in the final analysis, if one is fortunate enough to gain the knowledge, get the Efi system right, perform the routine maintence and keep on top of the air and connector issues, then it is much easier to keep it working properly.

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the yorkshireman
SD1 User


Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: more fun Reply with quote

Just to add to this what do the readers think of the heat insulating wrap from Rimmer's for the tubular exhaust manifolds (if you have stainless steel ones) as this is claimed to reduce underbonnet temperatures exacerbated by even more heat generated by the tubular manifolds?

To add to the stalling problem, as Ramon provided me with the steps before on another post, I tried some of his advice as as the car did it again (but I hadn't got too far from home!). A ex-leyland mechanic helped as well and we suspected the coil was the weak link and advised replacing it and new HT leads. We checked the fuel pump and filter as running it on low tank may have made things even worse - the filter didn't push out much fuel and only air - as advised by the dealer manual etc. we needed to de-pressurise the system (the fuel gauge doesn't always glow yellow for reserve - in fact never as I now rememeber) Maybe this could be something to look at?

(Mine is the old Lucas type with four posts I have a replacement one with two posts might have to swap the leads from dizzy)
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ramon alban
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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Location: Bedford UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: more fun Reply with quote

Hi Yorky, comments in red and blue.

the yorkshireman wrote:
Just to add to this what do the readers think of the heat insulating wrap from Rimmer's for the tubular exhaust manifolds (if you have stainless steel ones) as this is claimed to reduce underbonnet temperatures exacerbated by even more heat generated by the tubular manifolds?

This is an extract from my article on exhaust systems explaining some of the science involved.

Returning again to the postulation that “a bigger exhaust is a better exhaust”, let’s look at the size of the pipes from a different perspective? Heat!

Exhaust gas is hot, and it would be good to keep
it hot throughout the exhaust system. Hot gas is less dense than cold gas, so the colder the gas the heavier it gets and therefore takes more effort to remove it from the system. Larger pipes give the hot gas an opportunity to slow down and give the gas more time to cool en-route to the tailpipe.

We don't want our engine to be pushing a heavy mass of exhaust gas out of the tailpipe and it is not just that an extremely large exhaust pipe will cause a slow exhaust flow, which will in turn give the gas plenty of time to cool off en route. Overlarge piping will also allow our exhaust pulses to achieve a higher level of entropy (Sorry! Entropy is the way energy spreads out in a process), which will take all of the hard gained header tuning and throw it out the window, as pulses will not have the same tendency to line up as they would in a smaller pipe.

If keeping the interior of the exhaust system as hot as possible is an advantage, then coating the entire exhaust system with thermal insulation material, such as header wrap or a ceramic thermal barrier reduces the cooling effect significantly.

Cost may be prohibitive but a bonus side effect would be a cooler engine bay and down-pipe area.


I would add that another advantage is the reduction in noise due to insulation.

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To add to the stalling problem, as Ramon provided me with the steps before on another post, I tried some of his advice as as the car did it again (but I hadn't got too far from home!). A ex-leyland mechanic helped as well and we suspected the coil was the weak link and advised replacing it and new HT leads. We checked the fuel pump and filter as running it on low tank may have made things even worse - the filter didn't push out much fuel and only air - as advised by the dealer manual etc. we needed to de-pressurise the system

Fuel flow from the filter should be continous and absolutely without any air. Air will compress in the fuel rail and would interrupt fuel flow to the injectors.

(the fuel gauge doesn't always glow yellow for reserve - in fact never as I now rememeber) Maybe this could be something to look at?

Your yellow fuel level indicator lamp has a delay unit behind the fuel gauge to prevent flickering which is probably faulty due to the internal nichrome heating wire being broken, thus failing to operate the bimetal contacts. BUT it could also be a faulty tank sender.


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the yorkshireman
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Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: cheers Reply with quote

Thanks I'll try and look into it
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Punx0r
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Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 252

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrevillug wrote:
More reliable yes, but the average life of a new car is down to about 7 years due to the 'black boxes' failing. Once the car oes out of production, the custom chips are not made anymore, so replacing the boxes becomes impossible.


Really? My experience of 90's EFI is that the ecu's tend to be the single most reliable item on the car. Failures being rare, and almost always not a straight-forward fault, e.g. oil contamination of integrated map sensor, or blown output drivers due to incorrect loads.

IMO one of the major faults of the EFI on the SD1 is that there's not enough electronics. E.g. there's a myriad of valves, extra injector, thermotime switch etc to supplement the ECU. Without these, there wouldn't be so many weak points, and far fewer rubber hoses Smile

I appreciate that the design life of new cars is less (8 years Vs. 10 IIRC), but this may reflect the "throw-away" attitude towards cars now. IMO we make too many new ones and waste perfectly servicable older cars.

That is a whole other rant though Wink
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Rollyb
SD1 User


Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Engine Stalling Reply with quote

Hi Kerosene,

I had a similar problem and it turned out to be carb related. It was difficult to find because I tuned the carb (in my case Holley) according to the manual, and set the floats to the default setting. It turned out, that at this setting, my primary float chamber was over filling, which meant that I was flooding when I accellerated. A small but sensitive adjustment sorted everything out.

I was also running rich...

It's worth a check.
Good luck,
Ronan
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kerosene
SD1 Regular


Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 266
Location: IRL

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Stalling Reply with quote

Rollyb wrote:
Hi Kerosene,

I had a similar problem and it turned out to be carb related. It was difficult to find because I tuned the carb (in my case Holley) according to the manual, and set the floats to the default setting. It turned out, that at this setting, my primary float chamber was over filling, which meant that I was flooding when I accellerated. A small but sensitive adjustment sorted everything out.

I was also running rich...

It's worth a check.
Good luck,
Ronan


Thanks Ronan,and welcome to the forum! Smile .That is definetly the problem Very Happy.Also the distributor cap needs changing.The engine is also running rich too.Shame im not as rich as my SD1 Laughing
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