THE ROVER SD1 FORUM

adam01 · Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: HEAD GASKET PLEASE HELP

3.5 V8 early 80's carb
Any tips on changing the head gaskets, told its a simple job

the water is heating up very quickly so i think its the head gasket or i might be wrong could it be the t/stat . and i have looked at the dip stick and don't seem to see any water in oil ?!!!!

here is a picture of the engine ~ please tell me what head gasket kit is reqd . should i just take out the t/stat and see if any difference can i run with out it until i get another in a day or so

Adam Sad

small video

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PS: just finished checking things and tested the t/stat and that is working fine. but when i took the t/stat housing off the gasket broke away WELL really nothing of it i wonder if that was the problem maybe it was leaking from that point take a look at the picture gasket. CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT GASKET I NEED AND HAVE YOU A LINK ON WHERE I MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND IT

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PS: Have a look at this link

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is this the gasket i need 4th one down saying Thermostat Housing for use with Ed/offy

ramon alban · Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject:

Adam, I think this is still an air lock issue, but if a head gasket has gone then gasses can get through to the coolant galleries and the coolant would be contaminated. Your video shows initial burping but it quietens down. If the engine was boiling it would have continued to boil. If a head gasket has gone you would probably see a continous stream of small bubbles coming up through the header tank.

FIRST, do a compression test on all cylinders to diagnose any problems.

Also does you gauge say the engine is overheating?

Regarding the broken gasket, gets some thin gasket sheet from your local garage or halfords, mark the outlines using the stat housing and cut it out with a modelling knife. Seal with normal gasket sealant.

_________________
Ramon

adam01 · Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject:

ramon alban wrote:

Adam, I think this is still an air lock issue, but if a head gasket has gone then gasses can get through to the coolant galleries and the coolant would be contaminated. Your video shows initial burping but it quietens down. If the engine was boiling it would have continued to boil. If a head gasket has gone you would probably see a continous stream of small bubbles coming up through the header tank.

FIRST, do a compression test on all cylinders to diagnose any problems.

Also does you gauge say the engine is overheating?

Regarding the broken gasket, gets some thin gasket sheet from your local garage or halfords, mark the outlines using the stat housing and cut it out with a modelling knife. Seal with normal gasket sealant.

Hi Ramon

again many thanks for the advice very much appreciated

to day i have taken of the t/stat together with housing and cleaned it all up free from any dirt grease etc made a gasket as you suggested and will put all back on tomm just 1 silly question please take a look at this picture and tell me what way should it face as in the book it stats put the jiggle in the up right position i just can not find any markings on the t/stat i will keep you informed of my progress and do another video when the engine is back running again

Adam

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PS: Also does you gauge say the engine is overheating?

To tell you the truth i really don't think it is working as it never moves a single bit always in the same position so i will check that tomm also

ramon alban · Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject:

adam01 wrote:

question please take a look at this picture and tell me what way should it face as in the book it stats put the jiggle in the up right position i just can not find any markings on the t/stat

That little bridge is to hold with finger and thumb whilst inserting. Does this help

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You dont have one but a jiggle pin is an additional feature on some stats to aid air lock problems. As you have problems in that dept I suggest you replace the stat with one that has that feature.

To tell you the truth i really don't think it is working as it never moves a single bit always in the same position so i will check that tomm also

This means you have no way of measuring the coolant temp so its a bit dicey if there was overheating which could wreck the heads..

You might consider checking to see if the system is capable of working, ie sensor output, gauge in cct etc. if nothing can be done I belive you can get some coloured stickers that are temperatur sensitive.

Someone will be along to advise.

_________________
Ramon

adam01 · Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject:

ramon alban wrote:

adam01 wrote:

question please take a look at this picture and tell me what way should it face as in the book it stats put the jiggle in the up right position i just can not find any markings on the t/stat

That little bridge is to hold with finger and thumb whilst inserting. Does this help

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You dont have one but a jiggle pin is an additional feature on some stats to aid air lock problems. As you have problems in that dept I suggest you replace the stat with one that has that feature.

To tell you the truth i really don't think it is working as it never moves a single bit always in the same position so i will check that tomm also

This means you have no way of measuring the coolant temp so its a bit dicey if there was overheating which could wreck the heads..

You might consider checking to see if the system is capable of working, IE sensor output, gauge in cct etc. if nothing can be done I believe you can get some coloured stickers that are temperature sensitive.

Someone will be along to advise.

hello Ramon hope your well

put new gasket on the t/stat housing and no more leaks took her for a good drive and all seems good i still have to fix the temp gauge as not working. before i took her for a drive i ran the engine for a good 20mins to let all air bubbles out of system UN till she was running fine no more over heating very happy with that. i done a small video after i came back from the drive as to give you a idea of the running order oyah the electric fan kicks in fine so fine there let me know if there is still any air locks in her very much appreciated

Adam

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ramon alban · Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject:

adam01 wrote:

i took her for a drive i ran the engine for a good 20mins to let all air bubbles out of system UN till she was running fine no more over heating very happy with that.

Well done Adam, it looks at though you have finally solved it. No bubbles or burping on the video but do try to get the temp gauge working to prevent nasty surprises.

_________________
Ramon

adam01 · Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject:

ramon alban wrote:

adam01 wrote:

i took her for a drive i ran the engine for a good 20mins to let all air bubbles out of system UN till she was running fine no more over heating very happy with that.

Well done Adam, it looks at though you have finally solved it. No bubbles or burping on the video but do try to get the temp gauge working to prevent nasty surprises.

Thanks Ramon

just came back from a nice drive in the country side and noticed a leak coming from the lid maybe i just need a new one doesn't seem to hold the pressure any ideas Ramon . or i have over filled the tank and it wanted to get rid of it ?!!!! PS: i just can not seem to find the plug in the engine IE: temp gauge plug have you a picture of where is located

Adam

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v8driver · Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:41 am Post subject:

If you are unable to replace the temp sender you could always fit an inline sender.try these guys for more info.

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ramon alban · Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject:

[quote="adam01"]
just came back from a nice drive in the country side and noticed a leak coming from the lid maybe i just need a new one doesn't seem to hold the pressure any ideas or i have over filled the tank and it wanted to get rid of it ?!!!!

If the tank is so full that the water expansion cannot compress a pocket of air in the tank then that will force its way out or blow something up.

You cant compress a fluid.

That does not look like a pressure release cap so I would just clean the seal ring and rub some silicon grease over it, and leave a pocket of air. in the tank.

i just can not seem to find the plug in the engine IE: temp gauge plug have you a picture of where is located

At the front of the inlet manifold immediately to the left and slightly below the stat housing

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_________________
Ramon

adam01 · Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject:

[quote="ramon alban"]

adam01 wrote:

just came back from a nice drive in the country side and noticed a leak coming from the lid maybe i just need a new one doesn't seem to hold the pressure any ideas or i have over filled the tank and it wanted to get rid of it ?!!!!

If the tank is so full that the water expansion cannot compress a pocket of air in the tank then that will force its way out or blow something up.

You cant compress a fluid.

That does not look like a pressure release cap so I would just clean the seal ring and rub some silicon grease over it, and leave a pocket of air. in the tank.

i just can not seem to find the plug in the engine IE: temp gauge plug have you a picture of where is located

At the front of the inlet manifold immediately to the left and slightly below the stat housing

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thanks again Ramon

car running like a dream was out driving the whole day with the wife and enjoyed every single moment as car never leaked once have Left the lever of water down as to keep a pocket of air in it as you said excellent now very happy, thanks for the advice on the rad cap i thought it was i bit of a odd one.

anyway i have found the temp sender unit and tested that power was going there and yes all seems fine and also the temp gauge in the car is also working please take a look at pictures

thanks Ramon for all the help and your advice and time you have gave me a BIG THANK YOU

Adam

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PS: will any temp sender unit do can i get one from halfords have you a link where i could buy one ie: ebay etc as i can not seem to find one any where

ADs

ramon alban · Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject:

adam01 wrote:

will any temp sender unit do can i get one from halfords have you a link where i could buy one ie: ebay etc as i can not seem to find one any where

The problem is that your sender and gauge are mismatched and I have no idea whether a different sender would be available.

To test what is required, the sender is effectively a resistor that varies with temperature.

SO measure the resistance of the sender when the engine is cold and again when hot.

Now get a variable resistance and connect it to the gauge to see what resistance it takes to read half scale.

Compare the hot sender reading to the 1/2 scale gauge requirement and you now have to find a sender with that characteristic.

I have no idea how you could do that in your local halfords but a professional auto electrician may be able to advise or go thro' the catalogs to find a match - so its yellow pages again i'm afraid.

Finally there is a chap called Mr Chrisp who may have a better idea. Over to you Chris??

_________________
Ramon

Chris P · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject:

ramon alban wrote:

adam01 wrote:

will any temp sender unit do can i get one from halfords have you a link where i could buy one ie: ebay etc as i can not seem to find one any where

The problem is that your sender and gauge are mismatched and I have no idea whether a different sender would be available.

To test what is required, the sender is effectively a resistor that varies with temperature.

SO measure the resistance of the sender when the engine is cold and again when hot.

Now get a variable resistance and connect it to the gauge to see what resistance it takes to read half scale.

Compare the hot sender reading to the 1/2 scale gauge requirement and you now have to find a sender with that characteristic.

I have no idea how you could do that in your local halfords but a professional auto electrician may be able to advise or go thro' the catalogs to find a match - so its yellow pages again i'm afraid.

Finally there is a chap called Mr Chrisp who may have a better idea. Over to you Chris??

Ha, now here lies a story.... Ramon's remembered my Vitesse
temperature sender going unservicable.

The temperature sender on my late Vitesse failed - so the temperature
gauge was reading 140 at cold start.... Clearly wrong. Prior to this, the
temperature gauge remained rock-steady at ~90C, below the mid-point marked at 100C.

OK, I'll get a new sender from the local motor factors. No worries, fit it
and hey presto, temperature gauge shows low at cold start, then
moves as the engine warms up.... To well over 100C. I believe that
sender was faulty, or incorrect. If I remember correctly, Ramon and
I confirmed this senders characteristics by wiring my Vitesse sender
to his Vitesse's gauge.

Finally, I was given a used sender from an inlet manifold of unknown
age. Now the gauge reads rock-steady at the mid-point marked at
100C - 10C higher than before I had all this trouble.

Reading the parts guides, looking at dash pictures in brochures and
some other threads on this forum, made me believe that there are
different senders for different scale temperature gauges. The parts
guide isn't clear and the manufacturers books and cross reference
show only one sender. What is clear is that there are two scales
used on SD1 temperature gauge - one reads 50-130 with a
mid-point of 90 (series 1 and early series 2), the other (as on my
car) reads 60-140 with a mid-point of 100. Hence though my engine
is running at about 90C, the gauge shows 100 (as it should be the
90C mid-point of the earlier gauge).

So, heed Ramon's advice - you'll need to match the sender and your
gauge to get accurate (ish) readings. You may have to fiddle with
fitting the sender to the inlet manifold too - one sender I obtained from
Rimmer Brothers had a bolt head too small to seal against the manifold.

ramon alban · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject:

Chris P wrote:

Ha, now here lies a story.... Ramon's remembered my Vitesse
temperature sender going unservicable.

The temperature sender on my late Vitesse failed - so the temperature
gauge was reading 140 at cold start.... Clearly wrong. Prior to this, the
temperature gauge remained rock-steady at ~90C, below the mid-point marked at 100C.

OK, I'll get a new sender from the local motor factors. No worries, fit it
and hey presto, temperature gauge shows low at cold start, then
moves as the engine warms up.... To well over 100C. I believe that
sender was faulty, or incorrect. If I remember correctly, Ramon and
I confirmed this senders characteristics by wiring my Vitesse sender
to his Vitesse's gauge.

Gosh, I had forgotton that. My sender and gauge were working normally so at a club spares day, we hooked a flying crocodile lead to our two chassis' for a common earth .

We took another flying lead and connected Chris' temp sender to my good temp gauge and then vice versa to compare the readings to see if it was a faulty gauge or a faulty sender on Chris's car.

That was not the first time! I used the same wheeze to diagnose an oil pressure sender/gauge problem on my VDP Efi by hooking my two cars together.

Finally, I was given a used sender from an inlet manifold of unknown
age. Now the gauge reads rock-steady at the mid-point marked at
100C - 10C higher than before I had all this trouble.

Chris, thinking about that problem. Its got to be feasible to calibrate the resistance seen by the gauge with a resistor across (**) the Sender so that when your engine is hot (ie 90 deg C) the gauge reads the same as before.

Get the engine hot, put a 5k pot from the sender wire to earth and adjust it until the gauge is correct.

It wont be linear near max and min, but it should work for the running temp.

(**) or would it be in series if thats the way it works??

_________________
Ramon